This was part of a larger entry in my lj on the restrictive definition of geekery in general, and then I got completely sidetracked addressing some of the negative comments I've seen online on movie!Uhura. Obviously, preaching to the choir here, but in case there any interest:
(Btw, thanks to whoever posted that Nichelle interview a couple of pages back, it served to illustrate my point without breaking lj's character limit:
It got me thinking about movie!Uhura (because like I said, my brain is currently Trek central) and some of the negative reactions I’ve been seeing online. I’ve seen everything from “whore”, to “Mary Sue”, to ‘just a love interest’ and so on. I suppose I could voice my objections in comments to every single one of those posts but that would be a)counterproductive b)unnecessarily argumentative and c)from a time management perspective, kind of CRAZY. So here are my thoughts on yaoi, for everybody who hasn’t given up reading ages ago:
1.“Whore”: WHAT? Seriously, which orifice did they pull that from? While I find calling, say, Gwen from Torchwood equally loathsome in the any gendered insults on women’s sexuality way, Gwen at least engaged in some potentially ill-advised sexual behaviour on the show (but then, so did EVERYBODY. So to hear Gwen characterized the “the whore of Cardiff” from fans of Jack “I never met a lifeform I didn’t try to shag” Harkness and Ianto “I use my sexual wiles to get a position on Torchwood in order to help keep my robotic girlfriend alive” Jones is a bit rich. Especially when those same fans proceed to woobify the resident date rapist, Owen).
But with Uhura? Apparently the evidence of her ‘whore’ status came from….I actually have NO idea. Wearing the regulation uniform miniskirt? Being amused at Kirk’s inept flirting at the bar rather than clutching her pears in horror? Having a relationship with her instructor (not the best idea, but given that Spock is the one in the position of authority in this, I’ve seen a surprising lack of “Spock is a WHORE” posts). Seriously, I’d love to hear the reasoning behind this and no, “She got icky girl cooties in my slash” is not an acceptable answer.
2.“Mary Sue”: Yes, movie!Uhura is allowed to do a lot more than TOS Uhura, nobody’s disputing that. But leaving aside that the increased role could easily be fanwanked away within the show’s canon considering the alternate timeline and all the small and major ways it could be different, it’s also incredibly short-sighted to overlook the role that the overwhelming racism and sexism of the era played in not allowing Roddenberry to write the character he wanted. Just listen to Nichelle Nichols talk on the subject:
So yes, nu!Trek updated Uhura, not to make her somehow MORE magically awesome than the rest of the crew, but to bring her to equal footing. Are those people whining about accuracy also missing the random female extras in the original whose primary function seemed to be bringing trays of food to Kirk on the bridge (been watching TOS lately, WTF was that? In the spaceships of the future…there are stewardesses).
And movie Uhura performs admirably in her field, much like everybody in the cast. Sure, she’s very GOOD at it but then, so is everyone of the main cast. Sulu traded his fencing sword for the extendable katana of badassery, Kirk can apparently catch a man in freefall (and do it sexily), Chekov is the Doogie Howser of technobabble, the Federation just gave a freakin’ ship and ranks to a bunch of CADETS, it’s not a documentary!
3. “Just a love interest”: *massages temples* This one is often a few paragraphs under the Mary Sue accusation. So apparently Uhura was supposed to do less…except she was supposed to do more! Often combined with the “no strong female characters in the movie” argument (which is not without merits, but when aimed at Uhura, makes flames appear on the side of my face). I missed the memo that strong female character=necessarily kicking physical ass. First off, exactly three members of the crew got to kick ass here: Kirk (he also got to have his ass kicked a lot, bless him), Spock (see previous comment about Kirk getting his ass kicked) and Sulu (sexiest fight scene of all!). The rest contributed by using their mental muscles, which I thought was something we appreciated in fandom? A character who seems utterly devoted to her studies to the point where she translates transmissions for fun seems on paper to be someone who ought to hit all the fangeek identification buttons, doesn’t she?
As for the romance plotline…I’m tired of the attitude that a female character daring to be anything but utterly sexless somehow makes her less than. The double standard is everywhere-it’s why all Star Trek captains were allowed to get it on with random alien babes (ok, not so much Picard, but he did get some action, and there was the Crusher thing) or, in Sisko’s case, even have a *gasp* long-term relationship and family while poor Janeway's utter score card from seven years of Voyager amounted to a relationship when her memory was erased (which of course ended as soon as she gained her memory), a flirtation/mind game with an alien for the sole purpose of smuggling some refugees under his nose (yes, I’ve watched all Voyager eps repeatedly, don’t judge me), an actual freakin' arc of a relationship with a HOLOGRAM that led her to endangering the lives of her crew (because teh wimminz, they are emotional!) and that UST with Chakotay that never went anywhere (to add insult to injury, he ended up with Seven-yes, let’s pair up the two people Kathryn Janeway had the most chemistry with, to make it abundantly clear she's not getting laid anytime soon).
The storyline could have been handled very badly if they’d presented her as some kind of prize to be won by one of the male leads. That wasn’t the case at all-Kirk flirted with her because he’s Kirk, he’d flirt with a rock. There was no antagonist vibe from him-he got over his shock at Vulcan sexytimes in two seconds flat and went on to teasing Spock (and now I want to read fic where he does that, a lot, possibly joined by Bones, while Uhura glares daggers at him, Sulu tries to keep from cracking up and Chekov is flushed and looking down at the console and singing “La la la” in his head, and of course this will all be happening on the bridge, because did I mention a large chunk of them are practically babies?).
So sure, a lot of the Uhura bashing is followed up by wishing we got to see other female characters from classic Trek like Nurse Chapel or that assistant of Kirk’s with the insane beehive (I’m assuming you’ll want them to be completely accurate reflections of their TOS selves, including pining after Spock and Kirk, being talked down to by everybody in a way that TOS Uhura actually wasn’t, and walking around holding serving trays with their asses hanging out, right?), Number One (ok, that would be awesomesauce. There’s always the next movie) or creating more female Starfleet captains (apparently staying true to old canon is not so much as issue there).
I’d love to see more female characters in the sequels. Meanwhile, I’m grateful for Uhura, who presents a less flashy but far more relatable way of kicking ass (language geeks FTW!), who actually strikes a work-life balance and shows that maybe, just maybe, dangly earrings, impractical hair and wearing the hell out of a miniskirt doesn’t mean you aren’t, in fact, a gigantic geek.
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May 19 2009, 00:26:48 UTC 3 years ago
Underlined, seconded, thirded, THIS. :)
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May 19 2009, 00:24:34 UTC 3 years ago
I ♥ you.
May 19 2009, 00:25:12 UTC 3 years ago
It would be nice if there were more female characters, but any new character would be open to attack/dislike from the fans; I thought Uhura was safe, though. I (and my f-list, from what I've been reading) really liked the extrapolations they made for Uhura -- as you said, very consistent with what they've done with other characters. If she was suddenly a shaolin warrior, *that* would be making her a MarySue; having her be communications officer because she's a brilliant xenolinguist (not a glorified telephone operator) -- now that makes sense. The Enterprise crew as a whole are the best; that's why they're there.
May 19 2009, 00:59:59 UTC 3 years ago
May 19 2009, 00:27:03 UTC 3 years ago
Thank you!!
Thank you for posting this. Yes, I saw a U-whore-A post somewhere and did not respond. Then, I was kicking myself, because if Uhura is a whore - WHAT is Kirk?I am So Sick of the double standard that exists. TOS was so guilty! I totally agree with your observations about Rand and Chapel. Yes, Uhura was depicted differently - at times, as if she were almost asexual, because the writers couldn't depict a woman's feelings. I also have a problem wiht the depiction of Amanda and Sarek's marriage. I sincerely hope that the depiction (a very 1950s Father Knows Best model) was a sign of the times and not considered an accurate depiction of Vulcan culture.
May 19 2009, 00:58:03 UTC 3 years ago
Re: Thank you!!
I've stopped myself from responding to a lot of such posts because I didn't trust myself to type anything other than a stream of expletives.And God, yes, the portrayal of the women in TOS was very problematic. As much as Uhura being written in an asexual way bugged me, at least she was spared some of the cringe-worthy storyline the minor female character on the ship got.
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May 19 2009, 00:30:22 UTC 3 years ago
HUZZAH!
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May 19 2009, 00:33:57 UTC 3 years ago
OMG. Attack of the huge plot bunny....
May 19 2009, 00:53:23 UTC 3 years ago
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May 19 2009, 00:42:38 UTC 3 years ago
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May 19 2009, 00:38:45 UTC 3 years ago
Now, I have to say you have illustrated one of my biggest pet peeves with not only fandom, but life in general. And that is the sad tendency for those who are beneath that ceiling to fight each other instead of the joining to together to push past the barriers.
That is why seriously, all the Uhura/ANYONE love has been wonderfully shocking to me. The hate, I expected. This right here?! with 800+ members?? WOW. I say. WOW.
I honestly think a lot of the negativity comes from we women, internalizing those sexist attitudes. For some reason mutual hate is the reflexive norm for those in the similar situations. Why we poke at each other instead of the ceiling?... Easier than tacking the real problem.
As a woman of color and a fan, it is rare that I see any semblance of my reflection in many of the fandoms. But that doesn't stop me from fanning Donna, Buffy, Sydney, etc.
I've often believed that the reason we haven't gotten many POC's expanded from the comfortable stereotypical roles we're used to, is because Hollywood believes the people would squirm and simply not accept it. Traditional roles sell to the masses. Let's not fuck up anyone's comfort with appointed roles, lest we lose money.
But this is just one of the recent of examples of that being complete BULLSHIT. Write a good character? People will respond, regardless of whether or not we look like her.
Let the haters howl. We'll just be louder.
P.S. Number One IS the shit. And if ANYONE should be brought for the sequel, it's her.
May 19 2009, 00:49:27 UTC 3 years ago
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May 19 2009, 00:40:40 UTC 3 years ago
If there's anything I've learned in the many, many fandoms I've been a part of over the years it's that women like this, the ones who call female characters "whore, bitch, mary sue", etc, are the kinds of women who can't deal with a female other than themselves being around their fantasy men. They're the kind of women who blame the other woman if their husband cheats. And they will scream and yell and denydenydeny, but I've seen too much of it for it not to be true. Blame it on immaturity, blame it on craziness, blame it on lack of self-esteem; it doesn't matter. They're ALL OVER THE PLACE. And it goes even double if it's one female in a mostly male cast. They don't know why they're even hating, so they make shit up, like "mary sue". That term gets bandied about so much it doesn't even have meaning anymore. (Amd generally, someone crying "mary sue" on a female wouldn't know a "marty stu" if it hit them square between the eyes.)
There's nothing you can do about it, unfortunately. These types of people are utterly beligerent in defending their right to hate someone for no reason, and you can't make them see reason. I've found the best thing to do is roll your eyes and close the window. It helps a lot with the blood pressure.
May 19 2009, 00:42:16 UTC 3 years ago
*nods*
^THIS.3 years ago
May 19 2009, 00:42:34 UTC 3 years ago
1. I think a lot of people either a) have no idea what "whore" actually means, or b) just don't care, and use words like "whore" and "slut" as general terms to bash any female character they don't like, regardless of whether or not the character in question is actually promiscuous.
2. I say screw/ignore the haters. It's pointless to try to reason with them, and I've learned from experience that getting upset over whatever they spew is just a waste of energy. They are, as Spock might say, illogical. ;)
May 19 2009, 00:43:27 UTC 3 years ago
May 19 2009, 00:44:04 UTC 3 years ago Edited: May 19 2009, 00:53:39 UTC
So yes, nu!Trek updated Uhura, not to make her somehow MORE magically awesome than the rest of the crew, but to bring her to equal footing.
Ugh, a million times yes! Whenever I watch TOS, the sexism and dated gender roles grate on me far more than anything else. You can see Uhura and the other female officers get little moments of awesome but they never get development on par with any of the male characters.
the Federation just gave a freakin’ ship and ranks to a bunch of CADETS, it’s not a documentary!
Hee, now if you're making the argument that this is a crew entirely made up of Mary Sues... ;)
A character who seems utterly devoted to her studies to the point where she translates transmissions for fun seems on paper to be someone who ought to hit all the fangeek identification buttons, doesn’t she?
SO MUCH WORD (in fact, the keyword of the icon I'm using is "She translates Klingon for fun"). You would think that, wouldn't you? Oh, fandom.
(and now I want to read fic where he does that, a lot, possibly joined by Bones...)
Please, someone. Write this fic immediately, I need it in my life.
who actually strikes a work-life balance and shows that maybe, just maybe, dangly earrings, impractical hair and wearing the hell out of a miniskirt doesn’t mean you aren’t, in fact, a gigantic geek.
You summed up Movie!Uhura's awesome so, so well. Thank you for lending your wordsmithery to our range of creative talents! This was a fun rant to read and I nodded along vigorously. :D
May 19 2009, 01:31:50 UTC 3 years ago
...I kind of am, aren't I? Er, it doesn't count is EVERYONE is awesome? Though really, it's not about Sueism, it's appreciation for larger than life characters. If I wanted realism, I could be watching the show of Ordinary People Doing An Ok Enough Job While Struggling With Mundane Problems, but it wouldn't be as much fun. :P
Please, someone. Write this fic immediately, I need it in my life.
Haha, believe me, if I tried to write fic, you'd be taking back all your nice comments about wordsmithery. :D
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May 19 2009, 00:47:08 UTC 3 years ago
Yes, please! You should write it!
May 19 2009, 01:32:52 UTC 3 years ago
May 19 2009, 00:51:13 UTC 3 years ago
May 19 2009, 01:34:57 UTC 3 years ago
Nichelle is impossibly hot. Both in the original series (I've lost count of the times I've seen that scene of her sashaying in the bridge of the mirrorverse and being all baddass and knife-wielding) and as a kickass older lady.
May 19 2009, 00:53:53 UTC 3 years ago
I have no words, just lol.
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May 19 2009, 00:55:58 UTC 3 years ago
Then again, I understand why in the new film there aren't many female characters. There's Uhura of course, who has a much bigger role than TOS!Uhura and I loved it. Every single character who's not Spock or Kirk had a very limited screentime and every single one of them gave away amazing performances. Seeing girls serving meals during the different missions would have been REALLY awkward, lol, and definitely out of place, imo. It's the first film and they needed to present the characters the audience already knew - I don't think there was actually time to introduce new female characters just to stress the fact that women are equals. Of course they are (!!!) but it's Star Trek, and they're all men since the really beginning, so .. and as I said before, the complaints about no female characters can't apply to JJ Abrams and his team. His best tv shows all have a female as a lead - do I need to mention Sydney Bristow? She's the BEST female character EVER, imo ù_ù LOVE HER! Anyway ..
We get to have this one STRONG female character and:
1) she's incredibly intelligent, she actually takes the place of an *old* Lieutenant during her very first mission because she knows dialects no one's familiar with except her and Spock;
2) she makes Spock do what she wants. And seriously, who would want to challenge a Vulcan? Especially when we're talking about Spock and the person who challenges him is actually a student of his. SHE OWNS HIM, lol;
3) she stands up for herself, she knows what she wants, she's a beautiful independent woman who's in a relationship with a man who barely shows his emotions. We all love Spock, but I have to admit that it would take A LOT of strenght and will to love someone like him, to understand him and accept who and HOW he is. But she does. She's there when she needs him, she comforts him, she never looks like she's upset by his behaviour towards her .. I don't know, it's something I really loved in the film. The way she smile because she's so proud of him coming back to the bridge and offering his help, and at the end when he asks Kirk to be his first officer; or the way he looks at her ashamed of what he did after he resigns and leaves the Captain chair to Kirk.
I felt proud of having such a strong female character in the film. She's one but SHE ROCKS. A brilliant one is way better than 50 waitress who randomly appear serving meals, LMAO.
But yeah .. when there's a strong woman who stands up for herrself than they're going to call her a bitch because she acts bitchy. If they get a weak woman, then they complain because she's weak and blahblahblah.
I can understand if people *genuinely* didn't like her for some understandable reason, but most of the times I think that such harsh comments come from slashers who can't make up their mind about how NON-CANON their couple is, and they need to bash everything that comes between their men, lol. It happened before in other fandoms, it's nothing new actually ù_ù Or from old Star Trek fans that went to see the film and even before watching it they already knew it was going to suck!
Long comment is long! LMAO XD
May 19 2009, 01:43:43 UTC 3 years ago
I actually like slash. I have permanent slash goggles. Most of my slasher friends either didn't mind the pairing or actually loved it. One doesn't have to exclude the other-but yes, a certain subset of slash fandom can turn on the misogyny when a female character gets in the way of their OTP, much like some het fans can let their homophobia get away from them.
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May 19 2009, 00:57:20 UTC 3 years ago
And let's be honest the original Uhura did very little on TOS. I've not seen all TOS episodes, but I've seen enough to know that a good portion of her duty and screen time was telling Kirk that "Hailing frequencies are open". This was later expanded in future movies, of course, but TOS was not really the promise land of equality for Uhura. If they'd given new Uhura as much screen time as TOS Uhura we definitely would not be here chatting about this Spock/Uhura because Uhura would have been a mere blip on our screen.
The Just a love interest stuff is ridiculous to me. Do you know how rare it is for a woman of color to have a sane relationship while also being smart in the process? Do you know how happy I was about that? And then doubly excited that she got the smart guy and not Kirk the space whore (I like Kirk, but you are right, Kirk was definitely a space man whore).
Also, I watched the new movie again and Uhura did not ask for the cadet's help in the bar. She was definitely able to physically handle Kirk, evidenced when Kirk grabbed her chest and she added her own fist into the equation.
Also, another note, Kirk got his ass beat big time in this movie. My father very humorously referred to Kirk as the movie "whipping boy".
May 19 2009, 01:01:13 UTC 3 years ago
ALLL OF THIS. ^
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May 19 2009, 00:57:53 UTC 3 years ago
From what I've seen, you nailed it right there:
Uhura's a whore because she's getting in the way of the Big Gay Love. It's exactly what happened to Jennifer Keller on SGA, right down to the problem that (like every other non-Sam woman in the SGverse) she wasn't well-served by the writers.
That's one of the things I hate most about slashers (speaking as one myself): the insistence on demonizing the canon female love interest. People don't seem to understand why it's called "subtext".
May 19 2009, 01:06:52 UTC 3 years ago
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May 19 2009, 00:59:48 UTC 3 years ago
Unfortunately, this seems to run rampant across fandoms. I recall in the Watchmen movie fandom (which despite being awesome in many ways) there was a certain subset which treated Laurie/Silk Spectre in very similar ways to this Uruha bashing. Likely it's for similar reasons - they're the two most prominent women in their stories, get in the way of slash pairings, etc.
It can be very disheartening, but the cool thing is that we can have great communities like this to help counteract the bashing and misogyny.
May 19 2009, 01:08:01 UTC 3 years ago
The scary thing is that all this hate towards female characters comes from women >_>
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May 19 2009, 01:13:55 UTC 3 years ago
Now, I don't think all shippers are batshit. Obviously. :) It's just the fen I can't stand, the ones who literally believe that their ship is the One True Way and won't let anything (even canon) make them think otherwise.
I love fandom because you can ship who you want, poke polite fun at who you don't and generally everybody gets along. At least, it does in the bubble that I live in!
That's one thing that I honestly LOVE about this community. Everyone is so nice and supportive and REASONABLE.
I LOVE YOU ALL!
May 19 2009, 01:16:15 UTC 3 years ago
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May 19 2009, 01:18:56 UTC 3 years ago
I've managed to avoid the bashing, but I've seen critiques about Uhura that rubbed me the wrong way. Like you said, she may not be MARYSUEKUNGFUFIGHTER, but she's intelligent and competent, and often I've seen critiques that "strong female character" too often means "physically strong female character" and I wish people would make up their minds on what they want to see.
I'm loving Uhura (and Spock/Uhura) more and more each day, it's almost scary.
May 19 2009, 01:21:22 UTC 3 years ago
Some women are so invested in the status quo they truly feel that other women NEED to be punished for being competent, for having their own opinions, and above all else, for controlling her own sexuality. This comes out as aggression towards women in general and strong women in particular.
It happens in high school, it happens in the work world, and it happens in fanfiction. Phyllis Schlafly, anyone?
May 19 2009, 01:32:51 UTC 3 years ago
THIS.
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May 19 2009, 01:33:28 UTC 3 years ago
(Example: Lets say you were in a production of "My Fair Lady" would you want to mimic every movement and pronounce every line exactly like Audrey Hepburn?)
She was strong, given more depth to her character that did not betray the original series, (besides the alt. universe plot but I'm sure you understand what I mean) and she had compassion.
Just because she wasn't River Tam in Serenity and have sudden kung-fu knowledge out of nowhere doesn't mean that she was "weak". As a matter of fact she had the heart-breakingly (I don't even know if that's a word...) beautiful scene with Spock that showed just how strong and brave she was to go up to a VULCAN and give him everything she was. It takes a lot for someone to be able to show raw naked emotion and try and give all the love they can, even in an impossible situation.
"that wasn’t the case at all-Kirk flirted with her because he’s Kirk, he’d flirt with a rock" <- That gave me the best mental image. "So, you're the strong, silent type eh?" XD
May 19 2009, 01:41:16 UTC 3 years ago
LOL which brings up why isn't there more Kirk/Horta smut out there??!!
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May 19 2009, 01:39:19 UTC 3 years ago
A few things, also...
"While I find calling, say, Gwen from Torchwood equally loathsome in the any gendered insults on women’s sexuality way, Gwen at least engaged in some potentially ill-advised sexual behaviour on the show (but then, so did EVERYBODY. So to hear Gwen characterized the “the whore of Cardiff” from fans of Jack “I never met a lifeform I didn’t try to shag” Harkness and Ianto “I use my sexual wiles to get a position on Torchwood in order to help keep my robotic girlfriend alive” Jones is a bit rich. Especially when those same fans proceed to woobify the resident date rapist, Owen)."OMG, THANK YOU!! One, I love you because we both love/like? Torchwood and nu!Star Trek. Two, I'm a serious Janto (Jack/Ianto) shipper, and I don't hate Gwen at all. I love Gwen, and I hate people who bash her but then don't bash the others who behave the same way.
"(and now I want to read fic where he does that, a lot, possibly joined by Bones...)
Please, someone. Write this fic immediately, I need it in my life."
I have it in my head, give me some time. Currently under construction, pardon my dust. It could become part of a bigger fic where uruha and spock have a kid and kirk is the godfather and some asshole vulcans try to kill said kid because he isn't "pure vulcan" or whatever. But, I digress.
May 19 2009, 02:08:14 UTC 3 years ago
Re: A few things, also...
Torchwood fandom can be...special. It's especially hilarious since Gwen isn't 'in the way' of anything-Jack clearly wouldn't be averse to a threesome.*has no appropriate TW icon*
Good luck with the fic!
May 19 2009, 01:41:58 UTC 3 years ago
This actually seems to account for 99% of all Uhura bashing to date. Not that many are saying it out loud, but all these other arguments just seem like ways to get around saying 'it's getting in the way of my ship'.
May 19 2009, 15:33:42 UTC 3 years ago Edited: May 19 2009, 15:34:01 UTC
It's like, GUYS. There are bigger things stopping the slash ships. Like it not being canon. That's why we have fanfic, to write non-canon stuff we wouldn't see otherwise! It is not that hard to do!
People hating on female characters because they 'stop' slash make me sad. Makin' our side look bad. :(
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